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Marion Ingram Trans1 CH7 Duration: 4:21
CB: Lovely.
Number forty-eight. (MI048) This
is the same occasion isn’t it.
Marion: Yes.
CB: Terry’s Memorial Pound –
Marion: That’s
right. And many of the Commoners turned
up. And from the left we’ve got information redacted]
BI: That’s the same photograph, you’ve just gone
through.
CB: So restart number 48.
Marion: We’re at the
same occasion of the branding ceremony at the Pound, and in the picture we have
got from the left: we’ve got [information redacted]
talking to [information
redacted] and I would think probably one of his grandchildren; then, in
the foreground, we have Lord Manners and Richard Stride; and then to Richard’s
left we’ve got [information
redacted]; the grey-haired gentleman is Archie Cleveland; then Brian Ingram; the lady in the background
is [information redacted];
um, then leaning on the rails is [information redacted] and [information redacted],
his wife, next to him. Did we – I don’t
know who the person is –
BI: It nearly looks like Ada.
CB: So number forty-nine. (MI049)
Marion: Yes, It’s [information redacted].
He’s the one putting his brand onto the Pound.
Actually, I’m not sure it was the brand;
they put the inscription on the Pound.
All did a letter each.
CB: That’s a great collection of people.
Marion: Yeah.
CB: So on to number fifty. (MI050)
Marion: Yeah, in
this picture we’ve got the brands being heated up by the Pound and we’ve got [information redacted],
and he’s holding a child, I guess that was [information redacted],
his daughter; and next to him is [information redacted].
Kneeling down by the fire is Richard Stride and then we’ve got [information redacted],
and we guess that was possibly [information redacted], his youngest child.
CB: On to number fifty-one (MI051)
Marion: Yes, this
was [information redacted], he was one of the agisters, but he had
to retire through ill health, and he decided to write a book. And he had his book-signing day in the museum
at Lyndhurst and in this picture we’ve got Brian Ingram stood by the side of
him and [information redacted] is there doing his signing.
CB: And that was roughly – ?
Marion: Nineteen
ninety-one.
CB: So, number fifty-two. (MI052)
Marion: Yes, we’re
going back… I think this was when the hounds met down at the pub, the Royal
Oak at Hilltop. And we’ve got [information redacted], a
very young [information redacted], on Trampas. And this was in nineteen
seventy-five, so that would make [information redacted] four –
CB: Wow –
Marion: And Brian is
riding a mare we had, called Lady.
CB: Lovely.
So number fifty-three. (MI053)
Marion: In this
picture, this would have been a Commoners’ Meet – the New Forest foxhounds down
at Exbury. And in the picture to the left is a gentleman called [information redacted];
him and his wife were great followers of the hounds; and then on the horse
is… Actually, I don’t know who that was on the horse because it was a friend
of Mike’s. But on the coloured animal is
[information redacted],
and he lives down near Lepe, and we very rarely see him on a horse these
days. And then stood just watching the
proceedings, is [information redacted].
CB: And number fifty-four. (MI054)
Marion: Yeah, he –
this was at Ladycross and it was to do with Sir Dudley Forward’s eightieth
birthday, and he was a great follower of the hounds. So they had him – got him
there with the hounds and that’s [information redacted], he was the huntsman of the Buckhounds at
the time.
Interview with Marion Ingram at her home at Hilltop on 9th
February, 2017
Images: Marion Ingram,
copyright reserved. For any rights requests, please contact the New
Forest Heritage Centre in the first instance.
Marion Ingram Trans 2 CH 1 Duration: 5:07
CB: So this is Clare Bates interviewing Marion
Ingram at her home at Hilltop. The date
is the 9th of February 2017. So we are
on photograph number fifty-five, Marion. (MI055)
Marion: Yes, well that would have been in the pound
of Ashurst, the new pound; the old pound used to be down behind Home Farm at
Ashurst but it’s not very convenient for getting to the pound so they moved the
pound up by the railings of Sandhole railway bridge. (MI056) That’s ponies
being brought in, that’s Brian Ingram in the pound; [information redacted] to the left; and [information redacted], I
think that is, on the right. I’m not
sure who that is in the background.
CB: Okay. So number fifty-seven (MI057)
Marion: Is a picture of when the Sale Yard, the old
Sale Yard, was pulled down in preparation for the new one to be erected and in
the picture I’m pretty certain we’ve got [information redacted]
and Jane – I don’t know what her surname is – and there’s a couple of other
people I can’t identify.
CB: Lovely – and that was 2002, wasn’t it.
Marion: Yes.
CB: So, right, number fifty-eight (MI058)
Marion: Is a continuation of the demolition work.
CB: Okay. Fifty-nine (MI059)
Marion: Still more demolition work.
CB: I wonder if that’s like [information redacted] up
there. Yeah, I think it is; that one, it looks like – I can’t see it very well.
Marion: Yes, it’s not terribly clear, is it.
CB: No. Anyway: all hard at work. So, sixty (MI060)
Marion: Can’t find the wotsaname. Got the digger still in the background.
CB: Yeah, again, this is 2002
Marion: Yes.
CB: Taking it all apart. So we’ll go on to sixty-one (MI061)
Marion: It looks like we’ve now got an empty site
(Both laugh)
CB: It certainly does. Sixty-two (MI062)
Marion: It’s getting the ground prepared for the
erection of the new Sale Yard.
CB: And sixty-three is – (MI063)
Marion: This would be the commencement of the Sale
Yard in very early stages but you can see the thing all gradually taking shape.
CB: So who funded this, can you remember?
Marion: It’s funded by, I believe, the NPA and I
think the Council. We’d have to check it
out ‘cos it’s all written on the site at Beaulieu Road.
CB: Yes, that’s lovely, and I guess all the wood
came from the Forestry Commission, did it?
Marion: Yes, I’m certain it did. Local timber, I’m sure.
CB: Sixty-four (MI064)
Marion: Yeah, still got the big high poles round the
site because to roof on the Sale Yard hadn’t been finalised.
CB: Sixty-five MI065)
Marion: That’s the ring taking shape.
CB: (MI066) And again, ditto really.
Marion: Yes, yeah.
CB: Lovely view, virtually finished I would say
there.
Marion: That’s right.
CB: All of these are 2002?
Marion: Yes.
CB: And then this one – (MI068)
Marion: Would have been the first sale, after the
ring was rebuilt.
CB: Yes, and that was in – again, that would have
been 2002.
Marion: 2002. I can’t remember which sale it was we
had the first sale, I don’t think it was the early – the first sale of the year
was it. It would possibly have been about September
CB: I don’t remember.
Marion: No. I
didn’t do my work there, I didn’t get all the details.
CB: No, but it looks absolutely super.
Marion: Yes, there’s one pony in the ring – oh, now you’ve chopped –
CB: Slightly different picture, I think.
Marion: Maybe
CB: No, but yeah, no –
Marion: That one –
CB: That one.
Marion: That one.
And you can just pick out odd people there.
CB: Who’s doing the sale? Who’s the auctioneer there?
Marion: Well I guess it was [information redacted]. That one’s a bit clearer. Yes, I’m certain it would be [information redacted]
from Southern Counties Auctioneers.
CB: Yeah.
There’s just lots of familiar faces, there’s probably too many –
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copyright reserved. For any rights requests, please contact the New
Forest Heritage Centre in the first instance.
Marion Ingram Trans 2 CH 2 Duration: 5:46
So, number
sixty-nine (MI069)
Marion: I’d put
it that it’s the ‘posse’ at Furzey Lodge. In the picture we’ve got [information redacted], Brian –
CB: Yeah, [information redacted] on
the left, Brian’s central isn’t he.
Marion: Yes and then in the background, from the left
to the right we’ve got [information redacted], [information redacted] and in the background, Geoff Kitcher.
CB: Number seventy (MI070)
Marion This is
now into 2003 (Telephone rings) That
was possibly the first show we held in the new Saleyard
CB: Thought so.
So we’ve got [information redacted]
with the chestnut to the left middle –
Marion: Yes, and [information redacted] leading the one directly in front. It was obviously a wet day, with all the
umbrellas
CB: Okay Number seventy-one (MI071)
Marion: Yeah, Ralph Hayward, very prominent commoner
in the south of the Forest; he was also the chairman of the local Denny Lodge
Parish Council, and he died and this was a memorial to him at Blackfield Pound.
CB: So number seventy-two (MI072)
Marion: Yes, it’s the Drift at Backley Pound,
2003. Quite a lot of people. In fact the
pound is underneath the trees so it’s not terribly clear but I can see one or
two people there. We’ve got the – oh, that’s
Grandfather-
CB: Leonard with the big cap and red shirt with
blue gilet on –
Marion: Yeah and that – the lady, the grey-haired
lady, white-grey haired lady behind, would’ve been Tilly Cooper.
CB: Oh, would it –
Marion: I think so, almost certain. Now that, I reckon, stood next to her, is [information redacted].
CB: Yeah. I reckon. Okay, so seventy-three (MI073)
Marion: Yes, this is another – er, this was down, in
fact, it was a drift at Broomy and Sloden but it was done to celebrate Brian’s, my
husband, his sixty-fifth birthday –
CB: Oh, lovely –
Marion: So I think we had cake and a few things to
eat there.
CB: Great. Number seventy-four (MI074)
Marion: Right, in this picture the person sitting on
the shooting-stick is Peter Sweet, who’s now since left us.
CB: Okay. And seventy-five (MI075)
Marion: I think this is Brian’s sixty-fifth birthday
being continued and in the picture we’ve got [information redacted];
looks as if she’s either about to take a dish of sandwiches or something round
or she’s been and collected something to eat for herself.
CB: And this was you think two thousand –
Marion: Two thousand and three it would have been,
yes. October, I can – I can’t remember the exact date because I don’t know the
drift was on the date but er ..
CB: Okay. Seventy-six (MI076)
Marion: Yes, this again was the Balmer Lawn Drift
near Brockenhurst and it was – all ponies are driven into the corner at Balmer
Lawn and then they follow the railway line right the way through until we reach
Tuckers Bridge, so it’s always quite a sight with all the ponies coming up the
side of the railway.
CB: So number seventy-seven (MI077)
Marion: Yes, this was a wild fire on Hilltop; not one
of the controlled burns that we prefer to see because when they get too far
into the year obviously birds are nesting and so on so we don’t like them then.
CB: No.
What year do you think that was; was that about two –
Marion: It was two thousand and – probably two
thousand and four.
CB: Okay. (MI077)
Marion: Yes, this would have been the same fire and
my little Jack Russell watching intently.
CB: And this – (MI078)
Marion: Now this might have gone back a bit, there
was one or two –
CB: Number seventy-nine (MI079)
Marion: Yeah, but there was – somewhere there we had
some ponies – when we did one of the others , as I did one of the others … (Rustling
noises) there was – there we
are. Yeah.
CB: So this is where the fire’s been, is it, d’you
think?
Marion: No. I
think this was – this was possibly at a different site to the one we’ve just
seen, the wild fire; but this would have been just after one of the controlled
burns and the ponies enjoying eating – they loved the tops of these. [information redacted]
always refers to it “They’ve come to get their toast!” (Both laugh)
CB: Number eighty (MI080)
Marion: Yes this, in this picture, it’s at the pound, at Crabhat Pound we’ve – the’ve got the – it looks like it’s Sam. I believe that’s to do with [information redacted] – I think it’s his sister’s little lad. Young [information redacted] and [information redacted] and they’re playing with our other dog, Snoopy.
Images: Marion Ingram,
copyright reserved. For any rights requests, please contact the New
Forest Heritage Centre in the first instance.
Marion Ingram Trans 2 CH 3 Duration: 5:34
CB: Lovely. Number eighty-one (MI081)
Marion: Yes.
It’s in 2005 when stallions were being held in New Park grazing. They were just being got out, I guess,
getting ready to be released in the Forest for the season.
CB: And is that … erm; I can’t think of his
name, [information
redacted] –
Marion: Yes, [information redacted] leading the first pony. I
guess he got the first one out and everything followed.
CB: So number eighty-two (MI082)
Marion: Yes.
This was down at Wootton and they were pulling, the area is so wet and
boggy there they were using horses to pull the timber out.
CB: And that looks fairly recent; when do you
think that was?
Marion: About two thousand and five.
CB: Lovely, and eighty-three (MI083) is just the same – same day
Marion: Yeah.
CB: So, eighty-four (MI084)
Marion: Yes. Again this was at Crabhat Pound and it
was dedicating the Pound to Brian Ingram and Don Stevens in appreciation of
their work for the Commoner.
CB: And that was which year?
Marion: Two thousand and nine.
CB: Okay. So if we start from the left –
Marion: Yes
CB: Can we go through those names.
Marion: Yes, we’ve got
CB: [information redacted] [information redacted].
Is that not [information redacted]?
Marion: No, no, it’s erm Oh, gosh, isn’t it stupid!
CB: Okay.
Run through the names for me.
Marion: Yes, in this picture we’ve got [information redacted]
standing with his hand on the chair; stood next to him is [information redacted],
one of the verderers; and seated we have got [information redacted], [information redacted];
not sure of the chap behind there; Len Mansbridge, [information redacted]
and [information redacted].
CB: Lovely.
Number eighty-five (MI085)
Marion: Yes.
This was preparing the food there and in the picture we have Pat
Dunning, [information redacted] and [information redacted].
CB: And remind me what year that was; two
thousand –
Marion: Two
thousand and nine.
CB: Yes. Eighty-six (MI086)
Marion: Yes. That’s [information redacted]
and he’d wheeled his new grandson round to the Drift from his home at Kings
Hatch Cottage and he’s talking with [information redacted].
CB: So number eighty-seven. (MI087) Run through these names for me.
Marion: To the fore of the picture, stood, we’ve got [information redacted];
next to him is [information redacted]; and then in the blue shirt leaning
against the Pound is [information redacted];
seated is [information redacted] and she is chatting to Len Mansbridge and
[information redacted],
one of the ex-agisters.
CB: So, eighty-eight (MI088)
Marion: That was Jeff Kitcher and he was having a few
words to say about the Pound and the whole idea of the occasion; and Len
Mansbridge is also in the picture, but it was going to be unveiling the plaque.
CB: Number eighty-nine (MI089)
Marion: Is everybody gathering to hear the few words
that Brian had to say.
CB: That’s lovely. So number ninety (MI090) that’s just a
barbecue scene really, isn’t it.
Marion: Yes, it’s still the same day.
CB: So, in the foreground there in the yellow
shirt we’ve got [information redacted] –
Marion: Yes, I’m not sure who that is he’s talking to
though.
CB: No. So number ninety-one (MI091)
Marion: Would have been the Drift at Colverley and I
guess this is the end of the day. And
there was enough water in the river there when they’d finished driving to be
able to come out and walk down through the stream to wash the horses off. In
the fore ground, in the front of the picture we’ve got [information redacted];
behind her with the beard is [information redacted] and then to his left, I’m not sure, is
that [information redacted] or – [information redacted]
CB: I’d have said [information redacted].
Marion: Yeah, we think it’s [information redacted]. Not sure about those in the background…
CB: Is that [information redacted]?
Marion: It may be [information redacted],
yes; I don’t know who that is in the red jumper. (Rest of sentence indistinct)
CB: Okay.
Number ninety-two (MI092)
Marion: Yes – Mike with all his children (Both laugh)
CB: Entertaining –
Marion: Yes. I
don’t know who the little one is in the purpley top; but then we have got – and
I’m not sure about the lad – is that Charlie? Poking his head round the
corner? Could be Charlie…
CB: I think it might be. Oh no, Charlie’s at the
front –
(Indecipherable passage
both speaking at once)
Marion: – at
the front
CB: So we don’t know about –
Marion: Not sure about the one peeping round the back
but then we have got – the red-haired lad is [information redacted];
then we’ve got [information redacted], I guess he’s in charge; next to him is [information redacted];
Trying to get away from them is [information redacted]; and then I’m racking my brains on the
last one there –
CB: That is [information redacted],
that’s [information redacted].
Marion: [information redacted] – Oh, [information redacted]!
Of course, it’s a long time ago; two thousand and ten that was.
Continuation of interview with Marion Ingram at her home at
Hilltop on 9th February, 2017
Images: Marion Ingram,
copyright reserved. For any rights requests, please contact the New
Forest Heritage Centre in the first instance.
Marion Ingram Trans 3 CH1 Duration: 4:57
CB: So this is Clare Bates interviewing Marion at
her home in Hilltop. It’s the ninth
of February still, 2017 and we’re just
doing the third collection, so on to number ninety-three, Marion; (MI093)
what can you tell me about that one?
Marion: Yes, that was on the occasion of Raymond
Stickland’s retirement, and they presented him with a new saddle so that he’d
be able to continue riding, a nice comfortable saddle
CB: Oh, what a
lovely idea –
Marion: So in the picture we have Brian presenting it
to Raymond.
CB: And when do you think that was?
Marion: That was in 1979.
CB: Great. This is number ninety-four (MI094)
Marion: Yes, this was in 1990, and [information redacted]
decided that it was time that the pony breeders had a social occasion; so he
organised a dinner dance at Lyndhurst Park Hotel. And that’s [information redacted] with his wife, [information redacted], in the picture.
CB: Lovely. And number ninety-five (MI096)
Marion: Yes. And we have got Brian Ingram and he is
talking to [information redacted] and his wife. They were their guests of honour on that
occasion.
CB: Lovely.
Marion: And then we have got [information redacted]
and [information redacted], these were all guests at the dinner
dance.
CB: There it is. (MI097)
Marion: And then we have got, now we’re getting to
the younger members of the occasion, and in that picture we have got [information redacted], [information redacted]
and [information redacted].
And I guess that was still probably nineteen-ninety-ish. Maybe ninety-one.
CB: Okay.
Right, so ninety-eight (MI098)
Marion: Yes, it would be still guests at the dinner
dance.
CB: Okay and you think that’s –
Marion: [information redacted]. Opposite – definitely [information redacted]
chatting there; not sure of the couple with their backs to us.
CB: So, number ninety-nine (MI099)
Marion: Yes. Would’ve been the occasion of [information redacted]
fiftieth birthday, 1994, and in the picture we have got [information redacted]
and then [information redacted] his son and daughter; and next to them is
[information redacted];
and then Lennie and then .. Jill – I think her name is Jill – and they were the
two, [information redacted] and Jill were the ones who had to tempt
Alan up to – tempt Lennie up to the hall at Minstead without him knowing.
(Laughter)
CB: So on to number a hundred (MI100)
Marion: Yes, and this was in 1997 when Dad was
celebrating his eightieth birthday.
CB: Lovely.
That’s Lenny Mansbridge –
Marion: Yeah
CB: At home –
Marion: Yeah, sorry, Yeah.
CB: Number a hundred and one (MI101)
Marion: Yeah,
this would’ve been in 2003 when Brian retired and that’s [information redacted]
there presenting him with a statue of heavy horses, because that was Brian’s
next favourite after a New Forest pony.
CB: That’s number a hundred and two (MI102)
Marion: And here we have Jonathan, I think he was
probably saying a few words and stood with [information redacted]
and Brian.
CB: Number a hundred and three (MI103)
Marion: Was the party commoners gave Brian at his
retirement at the Royal Oak and in this picture we have Don Stevens and he’s
with [information redacted].
CB: Number a hundred a four.. (MI104)Looks
like the same party
Marion: Yes,
and in this picture – well, this is very much a family picture: that’s [information redacted],
myself, Brian and [information redacted].
CB: That’s super; thank you very much. So, yeah,
again, a hundred and five (MI105)
Marion: Yes, this is Brian, I guess he’s thanking people and also I guess he’s probably thanking John Stevens because over many years he was the one that gave him so much help.
An
interview with Mary Gray at her home in Brook on 30th November,
2016.
Images: Mary Gray, copyright
reserved. For any rights requests, please contact the New
Forest Heritage Centre in the first instance.
Mary Gray Trans 1 CH1 Duration: 7:00
CB:
This is Clare Bates interviewing Mary Gray at her home in Brook on the
30th November, 2016. So Mary can you tell me a little bit about your
Commoning history and family?
Mary: Yes, I can, a little, as much as I can. On my father’s
side, my name is Rockley and my grandad Rockley – Levi – he was Commoning as
well. Also my father’s brother, Bill.
They were a small Commoning family; like a lot more, they were… it was
a paid hobby; hopefully, a paid hobby.
They often had to work alongside, nine times out of ten they did, on
other jobs. Like my father, he worked for the Commission and latterly the
Council, just to sort of marry alongside, to keep financially going; there
weren’t the subsidies and things in those days.
And on the – Levi, he was greenkeeper here on the golf course. And also when the gunpowder factory at
Eyeworth, he worked there. Well, that
was sort of in the First World War and he used to cycle up there and I think worked
very long hours, but managed to keep Commoning going as well. So really, basically, it does go back quite a
long way. Sadly, my grandfather Levi
passed away in nineteen thirty-six, so unfortunately I never knew him, for he
was quite a grand character. So that is
the basis of the Rockley side of the family.
CB:
And did they live in this house?
Mary: No, they didn’t live here, they lived at
Oaklands down the road and there’s a photo of my grandfather and grandmother
there. The Rockleys, it was Levi and Annie, and fortunately I’ve now got a [information redacted]
which is rather nice, his mother was Annie. But anyway, no, and then in
nineteen forty-seven, forty-eight the family had to sort of split up, as they
do, when Levi had died and Annie died and my father after a great struggle
then, even, with New Forest District Council, managed to get this bungalow
built.
CB:
I see.
Mary: I was always interested in the Commoning. My
sister went on to marry Keith Dibden at Wellow and has followed a bit different
life, but I was always somehow in the blood; we followed on here with my mother
once my father died in ‘seventy-three and we carried on, and I was fortunate to
marry a soldier from Durham, would you believe (Both laugh) and he really took to it like a duck to water; and so
we’ve been able to carry on and ‘course our two sons as well, [information redacted] and
[information redacted].
CB:
Oh, lovely. That’s really
nice. So, can I ask, in those days, did
they have prefixes? Did your father have
a prefix.
Mary: Yes, it was Brook.
CB:
Oh, was Brook –
Mary: Yes, Brook and that’s as it is now –
CB:
So you’ve kept Brook on –
Mary: Yes. Carried Brook on and although we are
Gray, because I was Mary Rockley, married Robert Gray –
CB:
Yes –
Mary: But we still carry on with our Rockley brand.
CB:
Lovely.
Mary: So that’s rather nice, yes.
CB:
That’s Rockley Gray.
Mary: Brook Rockley.
CB:
And then on your mother’s side – your mother’s maiden name was –
Mary: Was Soffe
CB:
Soffe
Mary: Yes.
Married George Rockley and those days again we’ve got her father, was
John Charles, known in the Forest as ‘Dandy’. And they did Commoning from
Stoney Cross. The cottage, lovely old
cottage, sadly, they had a fire
latterly, since our family left it and then it was just a chalet building now,
but that was Chestnut Cottage, did
Commoning from there, turned cows out on the A31, and he did a little milk
round within the hamlet of Stoney Cross on his little cart, and also, alongside
again, he did his little bit of Commoning, his little milk round and did
thatching and spar-making was well-known. In fact, it was to do with his
thatching in one like when he died, because he – down at Minstead Hall he had
made a rick, attached a rick behind the hall there, in that field behind, and
it was in nineteen forty-seven, in that terrible snow, he came down to cut the
hay out like they used to with a truss, cut the hay out for somebody’s cattle,
and he was stood at the bus stop because, believe it or not, in ’47, although
it was bad, the buses still run; and he was waiting for a bus to get back to
Stoney Cross and sadly he collapsed and died.
CB:
Oh!
Mary: And Mr. Smith at the Club then came out, and
sorted him out, wrote a lovely poem about him, actually. So, he was again – you know, of real Forest
stock. Yes, stalwart, reliable –
CB: Yes, generations and generations. Right, okay, so: We’re going to go on to – this first photograph, Mary. (MG001) Tell me all about this one.
Mary: This is Levi with his dogs; he loved his dogs,
and he’s stood at the top of his yard at Oaklands.
CB:
And that was Levi Rockley.
Mary: Levi Rockley; George and Bill’s father.
CB:
Okay. And what was Levi to you?
Mary: My
grandad.
CB:
He’s your grandad.
Mary: But, sadly, as I said before before he worked
– he died in 36, so I didn’t really know him.
But again, quite a character, got quite a twinkle in his eye. (Laughs)
CB:
What year do you think that might have been, what sort of time?
Mary: That would have been … ‘twenties I expect,
nineteen twenties.
CB:
Nineteen twenties.
Mary: Yeah.
CB: Lovely, and the –
Mary: By the dress as well, how they used to dress. With the britches and the gaiters –
CB:
Yeah, yeah I see.
Mary: Hobnail shoes, waistcoat, high-waisted
trousers to protect their backs, with their braces –
CB: That’s right; Lovely. And this next one (MG002)
Mary: Well, this one is Annie, his wife. Again, I never knew her ‘cos she died, I
think, about two years before Levi, or even earlier; and that’s at Oaklands at
the gate. Her name, incidentally, was
Farmer, before she married a Rockley.
CB:
Okay.
Mary: Yes, so that’s an old Forest name, again.
CB:
It is.
Mary: Yes. Apparently
she was renowned to go around the sales of the houses when they were all selling
up, you know, buying all the bits and pieces, sort of; she enjoyed that, it was
her hobby, I think.
CB:
Okay, again, would that have been nineteen twenties, as well, do you
think?
Mary: Yes, definitely, nineteen twenties. And by
her dress as much, you can see it, really.
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reserved. For any rights requests, please contact the New
Forest Heritage Centre in the first instance.
Mary Gray Trans 1 CH2 Duration: 6:23
CB: On to number three. (MG003)
Mary: Yeah, that is in Oaklands yard. There again
it’s like – I dare say, Grandad Soffe would’ve thatched that, because he used
to thatch in the local area, so I’d be very surprised if he didn’t, I know he
did do their thatching.
CB:
So that is a hayrick, and it’s thatched.
Mary: No,
it’s a rick –
CB: Oh, okay.
Mary: A rick.
Yeah, a rick. I think – I’m
pretty sure, because the fern rick was always there – Used to gather the fern
in? In October time?
CB:
Oh, okay –
Mary: And then,
I remember going out on the moonlight nights on the horse and cart with my dad,
getting fern in. For bedding for the winter –
CB:
Oh, right –
Mary: Yeah. And
I’m sure that is fern ‘cos that’s where the fern rick used to be and he used to
just thatch it?
CB:
Oh, I see.
Mary: And that is down in the yard and apparently,
that rose was planted in memory of my granny Rockley, Annie Rockley. Yeah,
CB: That’s lovely, thank you. And then, on to number four. (MG004)
Mary: Yes, that’s not so clear, that’s Levi with
one of his ponies, it’s very difficult to see.
He looks a little bit younger there, actually, doesn’t he?
CB:
He does.
Mary: But he always wore his trilby hat,
apparently; so what the pony’s name would be, I don’t know.
CB:
That was probably a Forest run pony.
Mary: Just a
Forest – That’s right, Forest stock.
CB:
Okay.
Mary: I
don’t think I’ve got anything much on the back…
CB: No, and again, probably around the nineteen
twenties.
Mary: It would be.
It must be, yeah, yeah.
CB: Okay. Lovely. So number five, Mary, tell me about this one. (MG005)
Mary: Number
five. That is Uncle Bill. Well, William Rockley, George’s – my
father’s older brother; Again by that
hayrick – fern rick – on his, it’s only a little Forester he used to ride, he’s
a big man, as you can see.
CB:
Yeah, I can see.
Mary: And sadly he didn’t have any family to carry
on, so it was all left to my dad.
CB:
Amazing!
Mary: Yeah.
CB: Okay. Okay, on to number six. (MG006) Tell me about this photograph.
Mary: This is Freddy Page just to the left; he’s an
an old village chappie; and my father, George Rockley, on the right and they were
– It was at Coronation, nineteen
fifty-three, the Queen’s coronation. And
we had fancy dress and what have you in the village, and Freddy was King Rufus,
who’d been killed by the bow and arrow that he’s carrying; and my father was Purkiss,
who it was always said, to take him on his horse and cart, William Rufus, to Winchester to lay in
rest and I think – I’m pretty sure they got first prize. If not, they got second. They held the party in part at Fountain Court
up here in the village.
CB:
Okay –
Mary: It was really great. I haven’t got a photo of me, but I was a
Dutch girl, we were all dressed up it was really great.
CB: Lovely. Okay and that’s great. Right, so number seven, (MG007) Tell me all about this one.
Mary: This was when they used to do the Brook
races. Now my father George looks quite a boy there, so I would think he’d have
been about eighteen; he was born in nineteen-oh-one,
CB:
Nineteen nineteen …
Mary: So nineteen twenty.
CB:
Nineteen twenty.
Mary: So that will go back then, and Brook Races,
now, as far as I know, they were being measured, I know, down on Brook Green,
that’s near the Bell, between the two roads –
CB:
Yeah –
Mary: And then they must have come on to race round
Brook Common, I mean it was only a local little – it wasn’t anything like the
big point-to-point or anything like that, it was just a local and there’s, as I
say, one (Counts in whisper) six, the
boy who works, a boy, and my father, George –
CB:
So he’s at the back of the saddle, right, right at the back –
Mary: He is, absolutely, at the back of the saddle,
and you can see what he’s doing, he’s checking it’s all okay, and that’ll be my
father. And Bill –
CB:
Yeah, so –
Mary: Bill, with the trilby hat is the third from
the right and there’s a chappie stood behind him.
CB:
Yeah
Mary: And he’s dressed up more as a gentleman,
course he’s older than my dad, and the other people that – unfortunately I
don’t know, I should’ve asked my father, shouldn’t I, but you don’t, do you?
CB:
No.
Mary: So that would have been a long time ago.
CB: Mmm. So, number eight. (MG008) We’re going to go on to the Soffe family, which was your mother’s side, wasn’t it, Soffe was her maiden name.
Mary: Mm mm, yes.
CB:
So this, this first picture here; what can you tell me?
Mary: This was my grandad, Soffe.
CB:
On the left –
Mary: John Charles to the left with a cap; and that
was well-known, anyone in the cricketing field might know, was Chapman, he was England skipper, and he
must have been staying locally and just visiting my dad – my grandad, rather – to see what Commoning was all about, because
there’s these people in the back –
CB:
I see, yes.
Mary: So I guess that was because my grandad just
loved his cricket as well. I suppose
that was the liaison there and that was taken at Chestnut Cottage, Stoney
Cross, and there’s the big tree in the back, which still stands there, actually.
CB:
Does it.
Mary: Yes.
And so he used to turn out his cows; he only had, like, relatively few
cows, like they all used to have, just milking cows. As I say, delivered milk
just round the hamlet of Stoney Cross. So
that was the situation there and also of course he did his thatching and his
spar-making to couple alongside of Commoning, to keep the family going.
CB:
And it was he who probably put the thatch on the fern ricks ….
Mary: Definitely on the fern ricks in Brook. And
thatched ones in places up to Bramshaw –
Art Davis and his little holding and quite a few that I can remember.
Yes.
CB: Great.
So, just going back to photo
eight. We think that’s probably about
the nineteen thirties.
Mary: Yes.
CB:
And then –
Mary: Could even have been a bit earlier, twenty-eight, thirty, I expect.
Images: Mary Gray, copyright
reserved. For any rights requests, please contact the New
Forest Heritage Centre in the first instance.
Mary Gray Trans 1 CH3 Duration: 5:35
CB: Okay, so going on to photograph nine; (MG009) Tell me about that one.
Mary: This is grandad Soffe; stood out on the Green in front of Chestnut Cottage,
alongside the A31 and in the background is Tally Ho, used to be Tally Ho
restaurant –
CB:
And that’s at Stoney Cross?
Mary: That is at Stoney Cross, yes. As you go up
to, before you get to the crossroads, on the left hand side. And, actually, just to put this one in, when
my sister and I were small, which is nineteen forties, early fifties, we used
to go up there with my mother and she used to help in the house a little bit to
help because they were getting older, my grand mother was getting older and we
used to lay out on this Green that shows behind my grandad and take the car
numbers.
CB:
Oh –
Mary: And we had to wait sometimes for a car to
come along to collect the numbers. I
wouldn’t like to try it today.
CB:
No.
Mary: No.
CB: So tell me about number ten photograph.(MG010)
Mary: That is Chestnut Cottage beside the A31 and that
is my granny, Elizabeth Soffe –
CB:
Oh, I see, yeah.
Mary: Yes, you can just see it, John Charles’ wife. And the cottage, if you can see a little bit
in the front of it, adjoining it, is a bread oven where they used to cook the
bread.
CB: Oh!
Mary: And that is the chimney that they used to
smoke the bacon, and I can remember tasting the bacon where they smoked
that; it was a bit hairy because it was
never quite finished off and I used to object because I was tiny and –
CB:
Didn’t like the hair!
Mary: Absolutely! But Grandad Soffe, he used to say
“They won’t do you any harm, girl!”
Yes, so that is beside the A31, you can still see part of the tree
there. And as I say, fortunately, it’s
still standing.
CB;
Lovely.
Mary: Sadly, the cottage is not.
CB:
No. So when do you think that was
taken?
Mary: That
would have been.. again about the same
time, I would think. Nineteen twenty-nine, thirty.
CB:
Yep.
Mary: Yes.
CB:
That’s lovely.
Mary: Yes.
CB: So on to the next photograph, I think, that’s number eleven. (MG011) Tell me –
Mary: Again at Chestnut Cottage, under the old
tree. And my grandad to the left. This was when they made spars. You can see the spars there that they’ve
already cut out, and that’s one of his sons. Dick, who used to help him with quite
a lot.
CB:
Okay, and that’s metal, that’s metal railing in the background.
Mary: Metal railing in the background, yes; and, as
I say, if you look just through the railing, that is where the A31 was!
CB:
Wow!
Mary: ..?..
Quite different now.
CB:
What did they use the spars for?
Mary: When he was doing the thatching the fern
ricks, the hayricks, etcetera, they used to, he used all his own spars on the
ricks, so it wasn’t an easy task. Often,
on winter evenings, he would sit indoors and do them. To catch up, to keep enough going, yes.
CB:
That’s lovely.
Mary: Yeah.
CB: So, number twelve. (MG012)
Mary: It’s a shame, I’m not sure if it is ..?..
CB:
So number twelve. Who’s in this
picture?
Mary: This picture, and I believe it’s cutting the
turf out, because I know grandad Soffe did have turf rights with his
cottage. This is his two sons, Vic on
the left and Jim on the right. Jim Soffe
lived in Fritham after he was married.
CB:
Okay
Mary: But I’m not really sure what it is, it looks
more to me like turfs than it would be hay.
CB: Yeah.
Mary: Because with hay it was always usefull, of
course.
CB:
What did they use the turf for?
Mary: For their fire, that’s what they used to use to
burn, they had a massive sort of big sort of spread across one end of their
room. Must have been fires that they
used to use for all of their heating.
CB:
Oh, yeah, ..?.. They look very
happy, don’t they?
Mary: They do.
CB:
Lovely smiles –
Mary: They do.
CB:
And what sort of age do you think that one … goes back to?
Mary:
..?.. Nineteen thirty-two, I should
think, nineteen thirty-two, three, that era.
CB:
Lovely.
Mary: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So number thirteen. (MG013) This looks like an interesting –
Mary: Yes, it is.
The Friendly Society and the date is on there, 1914. That is sort of the parish of Minstead. I
should think, definitely … Dandy
Soffe; Charles is there; the sideburns, with a light jacket, and a braid round
the cap –
CB:
Yes, so second row back, probably one, two, three from the left.
Mary: Three from the left, second row back.
CB:
And that was – who did you say?
Dandy –
Mary: Yes.
Charles; John Charles, my grandad.
CB:
Okay.
Mary: Yes, yeah. (Long pause) Five along is
Bill Soffe, that is his youngest son. Who sadly was killed, or died, in the
first world war in the Navy, but that’s his son.
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reserved. For any rights requests, please contact the New
Forest Heritage Centre in the first instance.
Mary Gray Trans 1 CH4 Duration: 9:16
CB: Okay, number fourteen. (MG014) Nice group of ladies.
Mary: Yes.
This is it, this is like John, my grandad’s daughter is in this one:
Annie, second from the left at the back –
CB:
Oh, I see, with dark hair –
Mary: They used to have, yes. When they were all in service, my mother was
in service at what was called Lover’s Hall then at Stoney Cross, half way along
the A31, but she used to join in with the Malwood Ladies who were all in
service at Malwood and she loved her cricket and this is where this one’s
taken, at the pavilion at Malwood and they used to play, I believe, in the
evening. Nothing too competitive, I’m
sure, but …
CB:
In their skirts –
Mary: They really enjoyed it. In skirts, no trousers then. So this would have been … nineteen
twenties.
CB:
Nineteen twenties..
Mary: Mmm.
Quite early nineteen twenties, I would think. Sadly, I don’t know any of the other … other ..?..
Yeah. Late ‘twenties.
CB: Late ‘twenties, is it. Brilliant. So, on to number fifteen.(MG015)
Mary: Yes, this is Bill Soffe, who we saw earlier
on helping with the cutting out of, far as we know, turf; but he decided – this is John Charles son, my
grandad’s son – he decided he wanted to go in the First World War. He was too
young apparently, put his age forward
that time he did, he went off and he was one that went down with a very
bad ‘flu, I expect the name of it was Spanish ‘flu or something; a lot died
with it, didn’t they. And he ended up in the Haslar hospital and my parents, my
grandparents, then their only way to get
to Haslar hospital was to get a pony and trap, their pony and trap from Stoney
Cross down to Ashurst, leave it at the station and get the train down to Haslar
hospital just to see him for the last time; and I know his mother always said it
just broke her heart to see this long ward with all these young men just
passing out. They didn’t have much medication for them, so he died there; but he
was a lovely, lovely fellow, he was actually my mum’s favourite brother. But that’s so – he did, he loved the country
and everything but I suppose he thought again, “Well this is a challenge”, you
know; sounded quite exciting, sadly, to a lot of the young men then, didn’t
it. So that is –
CB: That one, and then the next one is number sixteen (MG016)
Mary: Is this… They all look something
like… Yeah, this is uncle Bill, same
one, yes, that was the same one. He’s
really good looking, so, he used to have so much fun with my mum because she
was only eight when he died and apparently at the Christmases before that he
used to put all sorts of nonsenses in her stocking at the end of the bed, you
know,
CB: Lovely. So on to number seventeen (MG017) It’s a document; tell me about this one?
Mary: Well, this is, sadly, I was talking earlier
on about John Charles son – Bill, as we knew him – William, went into the First
World War, put his age forward to get in and then sadly he died of this awful
‘flu and this obviously what they were all awarded with for want of a better
word and to the parents and it reads: “He who this scroll commemorates was
numbered among those who, at the call of King and Country, left all that was
dear to them, endured hardness, faced danger and finally passed out of the
sight of men and by the path of duty and self-sacrifice giving up their own
lives that others might live in freedom. Let those who come after, see to it
that his name be not forgotten.” And it won’t, I don’t think.
CB:
No.
Mary: And he is a young man who went in, I expect
if he’d lived to come back to Stoney Cross, he would have been one who carried
on with the Commoning because he had those instincts in him. And so, let’s hope we appreciate all that
those young lives gave.
CB: Mmm. Right now, number eighteen (MG018) Tell me about this picture.
Mary: Well, this picture, I don’t know whether this
would have been taken – in the fifties I expect. It’s at Skers’ Farm below us at Brook; we
didn’t have a Pound in this area in those days and so it was the Jeffery family
who came down from the Canterton Manor
estate and this was the son, [information redacted]. He
always let everyone use his yard to get colts and things in or any animals at
all. This is the hayricks in the back
and there’s my father, and I believe it’s my uncle, that’s Bill and George,
sorting out some colts that had been driven in, ‘cos it’s very small, but I’d know by their features that’s who it
is. And my father on the left, George;
and my uncle on the right, Bill.
CB:
Okay.
Mary: So they’re probably sorting them out for the
Beaulieu Road sales, I expect.
CB:
Did we hazard a guess at the age?
Mary: The age would have been early forties if not
the late thirties, I should think more like the late thirties.
CB: Lovely. Thank you. Right, number nineteen. (MG019) Tell me about this lady.
Mary: Well, this lady apparently was quite a character.
[information redacted], she run the old Tyrrell around at
Canterton –
CB:
The ‘Sir Walter Tyrrell’
Mary: The ‘Sir Walter Tyrrell, yes, next door to
the now newer Sir Walter Tyrrell. She
also kept a few colts but, sadly, she had only one leg and she couldn’t get out
to see her colts herself so it was left to some of the Commoners to try and
look after them for her. But apparently
she served up a good pint to many a Commoner, lemonade etcetera to the boys,
one was [information redacted], he’d remember her well, I’m sure, as a
lad, because he lived in Brook in those days.
CB:
Did he.
Mary: And so that’s – yes, but she never
married. She had a young man for years
but she never married. So that’s [information redacted].
CB: Lovely. Number twenty, Mary. (MG020)
Mary: Right.
This was in nineteen seventy two, because my father died in seventy
three in January and it was the last Foxhound Meet that he went to; Opening
Meet, and it was up at Janesmoor Pond, up on the plain at Stoney Cross. And
facing the camera is my dad, with Len Brown from Peter’s Hole, behind Minstead
Church, talking to him. He was another
proper old forester type. I don’t know
if he did Commoning, I can’t remember. Yes, that was the very last photo of my dad
George Rockley.
CB:
Lovely. So number twenty-one. (MG021) This is a lovely family
photograph. Tell me about this one, what
you were…
Mary: This was haymaking down at Blackthorn’s Brook
where Jack Young, who was laid down with the white shirt, used to live alone. And
the photo is: the back one is [information redacted], another village lad, used to help with
the haymaking; next to him is [information redacted] , my youngest son; next to him is [information redacted],
that’s my nephew, my sister’s son; and the next one is [information redacted],
now I’m sorry, but I’ve got them muddled up.
CB:
That’s okay; go on, go back.
Mary: This is [information redacted] –
CB:
So top left –
Mary: You might have heard of him; the undertaker
in Romsey, his son –
CB:
Okay.
Mary: [information redacted] next, my youngest son; [information redacted],
my nephew, my sister’s son; and that is [information redacted]. As I say, he’d been a village lad all
his life. And the bottom is Bob Gray, my husband, and I’m Mary Gray, of course;
and that’s a little lad my sister used to have down with Richard from London,
and from a home for a summer holiday.
CB:
Oh, lovely.
Mary: And that is [information redacted], [information redacted] sister and [information redacted] she
used to be at ‘The Green Dragon’ for years with her aunts, serving up the
pints. She’s very well known. And that
is, yeah, happy days, it’s when really haymaking was more of a pleasure, now
it’s so mechanical but … So that would
have been … nineteen eightyish, eighty-two
perhaps.
An interview with Mary Gray at her home, Lushes, in Brook on 27th February, 2017.
Images: Mary Gray, copyright reserved. For any rights requests, please contact the New Forest Heritage Centre in the first instance.
Mary Gray Trans 2 CH 1 Duration:4:48
CB: This is Clare Bates interviewing Mary Gray at her home Lushes in Brook on the 27th February 2017. So, Mary, we’re on to photograph number twenty-three: (MG023) What can you tell me about this one.
Mary: Well, this is my father, George Rockley – my
late father, George Rockley, rather – and my late Uncle, Bill. They were
brothers and this is how they used to do the hay making. They’ve both got a fork each, turning it
over, and they’re on Oaklands at Brook.
CB:
Okay. Which is which?
Mary: To the right is my father George and to the
left, Bill – William.
CB: Yeah, lovely. So this is number twenty-four. (MG024) Okay, yeah.
Mary: This is at Stoney Cross. My mother, nee Sofe, she always liked to join
in with the haymaking, she thoroughly enjoyed it; and they used to do it by
pony and cart, everything by hand then, with her father, they used to get it
back to the holding. It was all hard
work. Looks as if they had lovely
summers, then. And that’s at Stoney Cross.
CB:
Okay, so that’s your mum and her father –
Mary: Yes.
CB:
So that was?
Mary: Um, Charles Soffe.
CB:
And that was Dandy –
Mary: Yes, Dandy, yes.
CB:
That’s right, ‘cos I remember –
Mary: His name was Dandy.
CB: That’s right, that’s lovely. Oh, when do you think that was?
Mary: Um, twenties, nineteen twenty-seven,
something like that, twenty-seven, twenty-eight.
CB:
Okay, lovely. Number twenty-five (MG025)
Mary: This is my family, we moved up here in
forty-seven, forty-eight from Oaklands. My
mother, Annie; my father, George; me, Mary; and [information redacted] to
the right. And that’s our bungalow. It
was built new then, forty-seven, forty-eight.
CB: Lovely. Ah, this one – number twenty-six. (MG026)
Mary: This is back to my mother, Annie Rockley, nee
Soffe, at Chestnut Cottage, at Stoney Cross, where she was born and bred. And she loved her cricket, they had a women’s
team then at Malwood and she used to join in, she used to love it. Get out the front – if you can imagine it now
on the A31, more or less it was all grass – and practise in the evenings with
her brothers.
CB: Oh, that’s lovely. And number twenty-seven (MG027)
Mary: Ah, yes, this is my mother’s family, the Soffes,
at Chestnut Cottage –
CB:
Okay, if you start on the back line, sort of going from left to right –
Mary: Right.
This is Bill on the left; Polly, the oldest sister on – to his left;
then Harry, in the soldier’s uniform –
CB:
I see
Mary: Jim was sat down, with a cheeky smile; his
father Charles, Dandy; next to him, his wife, Elizabeth; and next to him is
Bill, the younger one who was killed in the first world war. And in front of that is Annie, my mother.
CB:
That’s a lovely portrait – photograph. (MG028) Right, who are these
two?
Mary: That’s [information redacted]
and myself; [information redacted] on the left, I’m on
the right and this is when we were still living at Oaklands. I’ve obviously
taken my dolly for a walk in the pram.
(Both laugh)
CB:
Whereabouts was Oaklands?
Mary: Just down below here, below the Forest golf
course.
CB:
Oh, okay.
Mary: Just on the right.
CB:
On the right. So – (Laughing) CB: number twenty-nine (MG029)
Mary: This was at Oaklands again; I was always up to mischief and climbing the
ladders; that’s [information redacted] above me and I’m on the lower one. It
looks like the saw horse as we had then, to saw the wood up , at the bottom.
CB:
Yes. That looks like a rick.
Mary: That is a rick and I believe it is a fern
rick.
CB:
Oh.
Mary: Because it used to be – I can remember where it used to be.
CB:
Actually, you can see it’s –
Mary: Mmm.
CB:
Yeah. That was for the animal
bedding, wasn’t it.
Mary: Yes, yeah, yeah.
CB: Number thirty (MG030)
Mary: And this one is at Lushes again, because we
were older now of course and that’s [information redacted], my sister, on the left; [information redacted]
who lived at Roundhill then, her father was chauffeur to the family then, at
Roundhill; and I’m on the right, sat on
the gate at Lushes.
CB:
Got lovely aprons on –
Mary: Had to wear little pinnies to keep clean I think, I was always getting dirty.
